So, today seems like it’s politics day. Let’s all jump up & say “hey!!”
It seems that we’re still on the topic of the State of the Union speech. Some people are pretty optimistic, others are neutral and skeptical, while still more are quite bitter I have found. Case in point, (commenter will remain anonymous) what follows are some Facebook comments between myself and a friend of a friend. I do not know this friend of a friend, but it stands to reason he’s not a fan of Obama.
J: Was very moved and inspired by the presidents speech last night. This is a time for us to come together, not divide. This is our test, this is our time!
Me: Agreed. We were discussing this today in my office. I rarely, if ever, talk politics & wish I was able to watch last night, but after reading the transcript the one thing that I thought was finally brought up in an insightful, yet strong manner, was the fact that all the criticism of doing everything that was promised in the first year. GWB came into office with a $200 Billion surplus, while Obama came in with an $11 Trillion deficit! Try changing that massive debt AND bring everyone together in one year. It’s like trying to undo what’s been done over the past year in a month. Impossible. I certainly hope he is able to reach the goals! I’m optimistic.
R: 200 billion dollar surplus!? You’re kidding me right? There hasn’t been a surplus as long as you and I have been alive. There has in fact been a huge dificit going back many years now well before GWB. Ex-president Clinton has a lot to do with this depression as he led the way with approving all these mortgage lending plans knowing that people wouldn’t be able to afford them. I don’t approve of all the things GWB did because he was stupid in some of the decision makings with going into Iraq, etc. J, its hard for me to believe that you think I was “sitting in on those meetings”, I’m too busy working my ass off with two jobs to make a decent living to pay 40% in taxes out of my gross pay. As far as my country, I did my time in the military so I’ve served. Look also at what he wants to do for retired military, he wants to take away the healthcare that they’ve been promised for the rest of their lives and he doesn’t even salute military personnel. Something that is very disrespectful!
Me: R, I think you’re referring to the National Debt. Of course that hasn’t been in surplus, but the budget was in 2000, before GW took office. When dealing with a budget it’s ideal to start with a surplus. Makes divvying up the moneys easier, but when it’s already in deficit, it’s much more difficult. Bush got himself into deficit (with his cabinet & spending programs), Obama is starting with that deficit, and it’s unlikely that we’ll get out of it anytime soon. It’s akin to cleaning up a huge mess someone else made. The smaller it is the sooner it’s done, the larger – the longer. It’s quite logical, in my opinion.
Me: Sorry to hijack, J. Here’s my resource, R: http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/files/The%20Political%20Economy%20of%20the%20Budget%20Surplus%20in%20the%20US.pdf
R: Let me know how socialism works out for you.
Oh…Kari (that’s me), this link is so believable considering it comes from the most liberal college ever. So if your information is true, then why are we continuing to just throw money away like its candy and if we were in such deficit from GWB then why did Obama spend over a 100 million dollars from tax payers money on his anaugeration when GWB second time around only spent 3 million. Such cause for worry. Also GWB had much more respect for those that served our country.
I’m not going to get into a debate war with this person, because it would be like talking reasonable religion with an unnamed member of my family. Here’s how I break it down into, “hmmm interesting.”
…this link (http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/files/The%20Political%20Economy%20of%20the%20Budget%20Surplus%20in%20the%20US.pdf
) is so believable considering it comes from the most liberal college ever.
The “link” in question is to The Journal of Economic Perspectives to an article written in 2000 regarding the National Budget. It comes from the Harvard website. Here’s the “hmmm interesting” part. Back in the day when I was writing papers in college, we had to cite our sources when we were giving numbers and information based on fact. This article obviously does that, yet I am criticized for choosing one from Harvard, since that “is the most liberal college ever.” I’m not going to ask his source for that statement, but come on! I cited my source, gave my opinion, and did not bash you in the process. What’s the point here? Oh, and by the way, GWB went to Harvard Business School. Isn’t that where economics is taught, in business areas? But I am NOT going to stoop!!
Also GWB had much more respect for those that served our country.
Really? Really? Using GWB as an example of military respect? Do I need to dig out the old files of GW doing his “national guard” service, and getting out of going to Vietnam? Then claiming he “served his country.” I am NOT saying that National Guard training isn’t military service, however during the Vietnam era, it was a “popular” way of getting out of going to SE Asia. As the waiting list was very long to get into the AFNG during Vietnam, people who were admitted were usually referred by a well known government/political/business contact. I have very little respect for a man who claims to have full filled his military contract during Vietnam without even stepping off US soil during the campaign!
I’m not saying that Obama is the best President ever. I’m sure he has his issues, but I haven’t seen anywhere that he doesn’t respect the military. He never served in the military, and although the Commander-in-Chief is the highest military rank in this country, it is not an official military post. I know many individuals in the military who would be offended if someone saluted them. From what I recall of my military knowledge (as limited as it is), a lower rank salutes to a higher rank. That higher rank may or may not salute back. Per the ODC-OCCP Military Protocol for Uniformed Service, “If you are saluted and you are not in uniform or in uniform and not covered, tradition dictates that you do not salute.”
According to the US Constitution the President is the Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces. Not all US Presidents have served in military service. Obama is one who did not serve. The only modern day President who served in military service with the highest rank was Dwight D. Eisenhower, as the General of the Army during World War II (that rank is only active during wartime).
Based on those two instances, it is my assertion that the argument goes no further than opinion. I will listen to anyone’s opinion, but when they start to question fact with opinion, and confuse the two, is where I tend to lose interest in their opinion, and begin to want to prove the information to them as fact with supporting documentation, rather than my single opinion.
So, most of what he said is opinion, but also denial. Shooting down my opinion & statements of fact as “are you serious?” is a little dramatic to me, but it may make him feel better. Who knows? All I do know is that the information I gave is factual and correct. His was based on opinion, and quite ironic, with regard to his admiration of GW Bush and his comment on the liberal Harvard College of Business.
I think that last part will always make me giggle, and deep, deep down I’ll want to say, “Really? Harvard is the most liberal college ever. Did you know that the man who you are staunchly defending as a Republican (conservative) graduated from Harvard Business School?” *watch as argument falls like a row of dominoes*